Talk:Power factor

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Power factor article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4: 3 months

Electrical engineering Mid‑importance

	Engineering portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Electrical engineering, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Electrical engineering on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Electrical engineeringWikipedia:WikiProject Electrical engineeringTemplate:WikiProject Electrical engineeringelectrical engineering articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Energy Low‑importance

	Energy portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Energy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Energy on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EnergyWikipedia:WikiProject EnergyTemplate:WikiProject Energyenergy articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Engineering Low‑importance

	Engineering portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Engineering, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of engineering on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EngineeringWikipedia:WikiProject EngineeringTemplate:WikiProject EngineeringEngineering articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

what is the approx value of power factor which is maintain by factory

a approx value of power factor which is acceptable in no energy losses — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.248.112.54 (talk) 13:33, 24 October 2017

not understandable

This article doesn't make understandable what this power factor means or is supposed to be. It seems to indicate that "power" (whatever that means) somehow magically disappears because more current is being drawn from a supply than the device connected to the power supply receives.

In this case, I'm looking at a power meter connected to a Dell R320 server with 2x350W PSUs connected to a 230V supply, and the power meter says the power factor is 36 while the server is turned off. What the hell is that supposed to tell me? This article doesn't answer the question at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A09:8E40:352B:D900:D16B:872B:FFD5:6B7D (talk) 05:01, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The next question is why do they make PSUs that have such a low power factor? Do the PSUs they put into servers suck?

Sorry, this is not a question and answer forum. Try Quora. Constant314 (talk) 05:24, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What part of "the power factor of an AC power system is defined as the ratio of the real power absorbed by the load to the apparent power flowing in the circuit" is giving trouble? And "real power" and "apparent power" have links, in case those are troublesome. I admit, the article has been improved so much that it's nearly unreadable, but this one sentence seems to be still ok ( ignore the crap about "closed intervals", that's just Wikiwanking) Why are you measuring the power factor of something that's turned off? What did you expect to do with the measurement that you made? --Wtshymanski (talk) 04:11, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Improved, but edits still required.

Of course this isn't a question and answer forum, as pointed out, but the topic must correctly answer the question of precisely what the topic is, and go beyond dictionary level.

If "time invariance" is a present factor in determination of the accuracy of the calculation, it must be mentioned as such. In fact, no specification of time frames are present. RMS is barely mentioned. Where multiple waves exist, are offset, and aren't even sinusoidal, time frames must of course be measured, calculated or specified!!! If power factor is calculated on a per-cycle basis, which cycle is it? If it is NOT calculated on a per-cycle basis, what is the averaging basis?

For some reason certain remarks ("the ratio of real power to apparent power") still exist over and over, but not in a problem / solution / proof format or presentation. In fact this wiki presently shows it is a collection of multiple, separate (and slightly conflicting!), pieces by multiple authors.

I hold no degrees, only some licenses which required some schooling, so I don't speak, and can't contribute, on the level of the main contributors here. I don't feel comfortable or capable of tackling the needed editing at this point. I'd call on the authors to do a bit of that. Tranzz4md (talk) 18:03, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That is a valid complaint about this article. I will see if I can address it in the next few days. Also, most articles are a "collection of multiple, separate, pieces by multiple authors." Constant314 (talk) 19:20, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I added the general case. I hope it answers the question. Everyone is invited to improve and edit. Constant314 (talk) 20:52, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"...the higher currents increase the energy lost..." appears in the second paragraph. It would help me to know that this re-write is still correct: ...the higher currents increase ohmic heating (resistive loss)...". Energy is not "lost" to the electric field in a capacitor, or magnetic field in a motor. It's lost because efficiencies fall and stuff gets hot when I and V are not in phase.

Before arriving at this Wikipedia article, I did consult Quora as suggested above. Quora now seems to count ChatGPT among its experts. After a bit of prompting, Mr GPT came back with "I apologize..." and agreed that "...it is accurate to state that a low power factor inevitably increases ohmic heating in electrical systems. Thank you for pointing out the ambiguity." (Emphasis mine.)

If ChatGPT and I are correct, that 2nd paragraph might be revised slightly. I'm not all that confident in either of us (me and Mr GPT) so I'm not going to change anything.Captain Puget (talk) 18:43, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Neither Quora nor ChatGPT are reliable sources. Constant314 (talk) 20:16, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The second paragraph looks correct to me. Constant314 (talk) 23:15, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I am neither claiming that Quora or ChatGPT is a valid source of anything, nor am I saying that paragraph is incorrect. I am asking if the loss is due to ohmic heating (which I believe to be the case), and not something else (I cannot imagine what that might be). Being explicit about the loss mechanism would seem a useful addition. Captain Puget (talk) 20:32, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the loss is ohmic heating of the wires in that bring the electrical energy to the load. Constant314 (talk) 20:36, 30 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

When was Power Factor first understood/detected/measured?

It would be useful for the article to discuss the origins and "finding/discovery" of Power Factor. It might also be worth including in this Power Factor topic a write up of how scam companies use Power Factor to sell devices claimed to reduce your residential electric bill by up to 50% with a $40 device that contains nothing more than a less-than-$1 capacitor, and a less-than-$1 green LED in a $2 plastic housing that plugs-in to an electrical outlet. 2601:648:8100:C83:55A8:670F:C635:3E13 (talk) 20:12, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Scam avoidance and consumer warnings are outside the charter of Wikipedia. Constant314 (talk) 20:33, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Would it not accomplish much the same thing to say somewhere that "unless a residential consumer is running a 100hp electric motor, it is unlikely that they would have a power factor small enough to impact the grid or their electric bill." Captain Puget (talk) 19:03, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You would need a reliable source and it probably would not be notable. Constant314 (talk) 20:14, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]